Attack limit

[Gen. Volkov]

Volkov, they're gonna try it out regardless, just keep all the problems in mind and demonstrate them when it goes beta.

That's what I'm gonna do.

I don't know how long the discussions have been going in the staff section, but it has apparantly been a while. People don't spend that much time hashing out a plan and then not test it just because me and you tell them it won't work.

There hasn't been any discussion in the staff section, though I think there has been discussion over AIM.

[The Beatles]

I don't have anything new to respond to your post, but it doesn't seem to be new either. What I'm saying is land grabbing != war. Land grabbing is O.K. But land passing between allies is confusing to the new player and frankly silly in terms of realism, so it shouldn't really be necessary.

[Ruddertail]

If we're going for realism, land grabbing must equal war. If Canada sends troops into the US, I don't care if they take a border town or Washington state, the US is still going to smack them down majorly. (Yes, my Canadian friends, that would be the outcome, even with the troops over in Iraq. Especially since most of you don't seem overly keen on the suicide bombing thing...)

Any peaceful land trading between states - whether it's a one time thing or not - is silly in terms of realism.

Further, land is either a valuable commodity to be held, the taking of which is a war act, or it is something that, in some amount or another, passes freely around the server. You can't have it both ways. It currently passes freely around the server. You can reduce the amount that passes around, perhaps, by upping build times. However, it'll still be passed around. People won't attempt to hold land, and they won't complain when you hit them. There's no change in the overall playing atmosphere, and, if all you want to do is limit the amount of land people pass, I would oppose any such idea.

If you want to make land a valuable commodity that people protect, on the other hand, you cannot have non war land grabs. If your taking my land hurts me and benefits you, then, if you take my land, I will strike back - hard. If your taking land doesn't hurt me, I won't mind, and we'll be back where we are now, land passing.

Land is either something worth warring over, or something not worth dealing with. If you're just limiting land passing, it's not any different then it is now, except smaller amounts. I'm willing to get rid of land passing - I think that could make the game better, or at least different - more dependant on diplomacy and war to gain and hold land. I don't see why limiting land passing makes the game any better.

[Freenhult]

Hum. This is a major thing. Because as far as I know, we're removing ourself from a traditional promi set-up where getting attacked for land is the norm. (Atleast for me it is.) Moving to a competely different set-up where attacking for land could get you killed... Thats major.

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. I'm just agreeing with Rudder here. We can't have it both ways. Either land will be something worth fighting for, or its something thats not gonna get a second look.

One thing I can think of, is to improve the amount of time an empire can scout for land. Or. Just somehow, make it so as you scout, you lose food, money, and troops. Starting Empires won't be as effected by this, but once they get to the mid-level, they still have a viable option to gain land.

I don't wanna see the game get peaceful and more netbuilding as a result of our decision to reduce land attacks. So we need to find ways to encourage conflict and such also.

[maddog]

There is one thing i can see in this and i dont know if it can be countered is that any clans that r built can still pass land between its clan m8s with ease by having the leader or co leader online getting kicked out of the clan with clan m8s dropping troops in ct or something the unclanned person attacking his teammates for land with hardly any loss to either side therefore making a run once they ran they just rejoin their clan and process carries on with the next clan member therefore the clan as a whole can build a good networth as well as each member of that clan depending on their skill will also have a good networth by the end of each set

[Ruddertail]

I don't think you'll risk making it too peaceful. People will start wars for land, ultimately. As far as real wars, we'll probably see an increase, really. There will be less offenses, perhaps, but land grabbing isn't really war, so the game doesn't actually become more "peaceful". Even 2 - 3 clan wars on average would mean more real wars then we normally have.

Maddog - did you read this topic and the other one? That's impossible.

1: Land gains are lowered, except in clan war.
2: Buildings have very little productivity initially. Thus, land passing actually hurts all parties involved, because their buildings are constantly getting knocked back to starting productivity.

[The Beatles]

Good points. In that case, since upping scouting ease would just increase the overall amount of land in the game, without necessarily concentrating it at the lower orders, increase the return on scouting, but impose even stiffer penalties in terms of food/cash loss on it?

[Ruddertail]

Increasing cost per acre scouted, depending on acres owned. That way, people who end up on the losing side of a war have a way of building up their strength again.

Also, instead of a "loss of food and cash" let's make it a "cost". It just sounds better - you have to pay the people who go out and explore, survey, and claim...

Also, it'd be nice to have an automatic calculator on the scout page. You could fill in how many turns you want to scout, it'd give you the cost and the land gained. But that's just a minor thing.

[Freenhult]

xD I feel smart for coming up with good ideas.

[Freenhult]

Ideas for new code:

Reduced Land gained from attacks (Devari/Ruddertail) 1/4 of current was suggested.
No Hitlimit (Beatles)
Reserves (Everyone) Based on Net.
Clan war modifications (Freenhult/Ruddertail) More offensive, Defensive penalty.
Building Efficiency over turns used. (Beatles/Ruddertail)
Ability to capture buildings with reduced efficiency (Freenhult) 1/20 of what it was.
War Setting locked in for 36-48 hrs (Ruddertail/Frenehult)
People locked in clans for 2-3 days after peace is declared (Freenhult/Ruddertail)
Game News on main page or displayed in Global Account. (Freenhult/Ruddertail)
Scouting (Freenhult) Ability to scout past 10-15k land, but with large "Cost"

More to come... Once we unveil what hidden, this can be filled in more to help explain some of the oddities.

Feel free to edit this guys, if you have an idea and such.

I just thought a list would be spiffy, so we can see at a glance whats in this topic.