Industry vs. Hawk

[Zephyrus]

Well, filling each hut to half full should be quick. The other half should take a bit. Overfilling simply by demolishing should be somehow controlled.

[Devari]

Well, personally, I'd like to see a powerful (as in, able to kill half a person's hawks+runes if really lucky)* combined hawk destruction/rune destruction attack. However, hawks would defend against these attacks with some weak/mediocre DP. That should be no problem for indy to get around, but prevents a casual "balanced" player from completely destroying a hawker.

Then change hawk attack to be more like a troop attack - none of this losing 200k hawks when attacking a person with 9. Give hawks OP/DP values and the spell simply works like a "send everything" troop attack for land. Losses done just like in troop attacks. Plus GTs defend with DP against hawk attacks.

That could balance things a bit... At least, make hawks viable as an attacking unit on their own, while still allowing for them to be cruely decimated, worse than murder does.

* My idea for this is 3 1-50 random generators averaged, like in Polymorph. So it is more likely that 25% hawks+runes would be destroyed then 1% or 50%. .0008% chance of 50% or 1% being destroyed, I think. (1/50)^3

[Zephyrus]

Devari, what limits the repeated use of that?

I would prefer something small in effect, but as cost effective as murder/destroy structures.

[Veranor]

Really the thing that makes hawks so good is their ability to bounce back. Loss of land helps them afterall!

What if the destruction of huts 'drove out' hawks (even though by running turns they wouldn't leave).

Regen to the ability to do basic spells (weak loot/forage) would be important to keep them from losing everything to a poor economy after a small hit, but they shouldn't be able to do the full power easily.

To discourage demoing to fill huts you either have some script that maintains the ratio they have. If you have 10 hawks to every hut and you demo half your huts then you would lose some portion of your hawks, keeping the ratios exactly the same (10 hawks to every hut) seems far too harsh, but perhaps the new ratio would not be 20:1 but instead 15 or 17:1 with the loss of hawks increasing as the new ratio gets better and bettter

How about this:

When huts are demolished/destroyed, hawks are recalculated like so:

newhawks= old hawks - (oldhawks * ((oldhawks/newhuts -oldhawks/oldhuts)/200))

so, you have 1000 hawks in 10 huts, and you demo 2 huts:

new hawks = 1000 - ((1000 / 8) - (1000/10))/(200)
new hawks = 1000 - (125 - 100)/(200)
new hawks = 1000 - 1000 * (25)/200)
new hawks = 1000 - (125)
new hawks = 875

875 / 8 = 109
1000/8 = 125

Which is an increase in ratio, yet not nearly as good as before.

same numbers, except demoing 4 huts:

new hawks = 1000 - ((1000/6) - (1000/10))/(200) * 1000
new hawks = 1000 - ((166 - 100)/200) * 1000
new hawks = 1000 - (66/200) * 1000
new hawks = 1000 - 330
new hawks = 670

670 / 6 = 111
1000 / 6 = 166

Now, ratio is increasing but the increase is not as good.

Obviously messing with the numbers could yield a better formula, but what I was trying to write was a formula that would allow small destructions an increase in ratio, but you would have to lose a considerably greater amount of huts to get that 175 ratio.

[Zephyrus]

Something we semi-forgot, but pretty much puts a nice kilogram weight on the indy side. You can always suicide a hawk masser without really having many hawks yourself. Really big waste, but you do it knowing they lose (hopefully, but usually somewhat less) an equal amount of turns.

[Ruddertail]

Or, we could have an attack that takes 5-10% of land built into huts, and retruns it to you as free land, as well as destroys 5% of runes. This would make a hawker lose hawks, as he took major losses to huts, as well as make recovery difficult, due to lack of runes.
The attack would be basicly a standard attack. The fourmula for the hawker's defense points would be.

[Troop DP/(hawks)x(.0001) + guards] Unless I made a mistake, that would give a hawker with 100,000 Troop DP, and 1,000,000 hawks a 10,000 dp, plus anything from guards, which would be 1,000 or so at most. All you need to break that is 6,000 mice. Maybe it should be .00001.* Otherwise, almost anyone could break them. (This would give the hawker above, who is more likley to be a hybrid strater, a dp of 100,000. 60,000 mice, and a pure hawker would have fewer DP.) So maybe 20 or 30,000 mice to break a hawker with a mil hawks, which would be on about 10,000 acres.

[Zephyrus]

Now that I remembered hawk suicide, probably only rune destruction is required.

[Ruddertail]

Then 3 - 5% destruction of runes?

[Veranor]

Something we semi-forgot, but pretty much puts a nice kilogram weight on the indy side. You can always suicide a hawk masser without really having many hawks yourself. Really big waste, but you do it knowing they lose (hopefully, but usually somewhat less) an equal amount of turns.

Definitely less because hawks regenerate fairly fast. Also if you do any land attack then the suicide's effects are less. And to prevent suicides you change the death amount to be based on the attackers's sent amount like for regular troops.

[Zephyrus]

We don't want suicide prevented. It's not too effective, but then neither should it be.