Great Wars

[The Otter Horde]

Hey thanx FWF!!! I had a horrible net thanks to some *glares at Nohc and Ruddertail and the laughs* so I couldn't do much!! Yeah we actually know each other in person! We knew each other before this game was started!!!! Oh and by the way, FWF my name is spelled Otter H-O-R-D-E!!!! *laughs*!! Not hourd

[Fresh Water Fighters]

O well this is the first time you have said anything...
I am always spelling things wrong.
I know you would be greatful.
~FWF

[The Otter Horde]

*laughs*! I was just getting tired of being Otter hourd.... *laughs* no big deal.. I am grateful tho!! This time I am going to be first!! (I hope!) You got lucky and you had most of the land in the game for about a week or two so you could train and store all you wanted while I was stuck with a measly 30 k land with which I could hardly do anything! *laughs*! Especially with attacks from Life Tastes Good aka Urran Voh, everyday!!!

[Fresh Water Fighters]

O well we almost killed him before he went on vaction...
*laughs*
~FWF

[ohmyjapan16]

Hehe I was Life Tastes Good.

[The Otter Horde]

IT WAS YOU!?!? I didn't know that you could be that evil! And I underestimated you!! I thought that you just started FAF a few months ago! Have you played these type of games before??

[ohmyjapan16]

Nope. I'm a quick learner.

[ohmyjapan16]

O well we almost killed him before he went on vaction...
*laughs*
~FWF

Yea, I couldn't take on 6 people by myself, so I went on vacation 'till Rudder reformed UW.

[Urran Voh]

Hahaa! Good one Japan!

Otter Hourd ( ), if I was actually signed up on COG and didn't forget to play, I would've done far more evil things than Japan did. :*laughs*:

[Ruddertail]

{In reply to Ruddertail's post...} [I wrote this before FWF's post]

Then what's the point of kills being part of the game?! huh? If you can't beat them then they will beat you down and rule without hinderence!! But if you kill the ruling man then you have a chance at the top! Just cuz you don't want to start your warband over or lose your chance at winning doesn't mean we shouldn't kill you or whoever the ruling one is! A coward huh? Doing something such as killing to get to the top is cowardice? Isn't that the point of the game? To get to the top and win? Or is all "honor" and "just"? If I have to kill to win an internet game and tick some people off along the way then I will.. And if people do get really ticked off then they should get a life if a simple internet game gets them mad...

I am still not saying that senseless killing is OK but if I can't do anything else to win and I WANT to win then I won't pause because of being called a coward... I will try to just take them down without killing first but if I can't... I WANT TO WIN!

Well, this needs a response. I'll quote the whole message first, then individual parts.

Then what's the point of kills being part of the game?! huh? If you can't beat them then they will beat you down and rule without hinderence!! But if you kill the ruling man then you have a chance at the top!

So then you kill all the guys who are better then you, and rule without hinderance because they're all dead? It seems your problem is not someone ruling unchalenged, it's you not being the one ruling. Let's keep that streight(sp?).

A coward huh? Doing something such as killing to get to the top is cowardice? Isn't that the point of the game?

Getting to the top is the point of the game. But by killing, you get to the top without giving the other guy a chance to fight. He's there one minute, and then, wham, he's gone. He never knew you were coming. That's why even in war, assasins are counted as dirty. The guy never knew what was coming.

It's the same thing here. If you told the guy ahead of time you were planning to kill him, it wouldn't be that bad. He'd have a chance to plan for it, try and damage you first, or get strong enough that you couldn't break him. Of course, that might allow him to kill you. Though the whole point of forced standards is to make it necesary to have several planning runs before you can just kill someone your size.

I am still not saying that senseless killing is OK but if I can't do anything else to win and I WANT to win then I won't pause because of being called a coward... I will try to just take them down without killing first but if I can't... I WANT TO WIN!

There are always things you can do win. Get more allies, for one thing. Organise a group to standard the person repeatadly. Get a hawker who can murder the guy. Something. Just think, the guy you're killing wants to win two. And, further more, he's giving you a chance. You're not giving him one.

[The Otter Horde]

Urran Voh... Far eviler things huh\? Oh well good thing you weren't signed up!

In reply to Ruddertail's comments...
My problem is not "not being able to rule" but that I WANT to rule so that's how I can do it! If I don't try for the top but just be content that you are the emperor then what fun is that? After we killed you, we still had plenty of enemies! Like Ohmyjapan16 and people who wanted the GA dethroned...I don't kill all the guys who are better than me!!!! I kill the ONE that I can't beat otherwise and then I contest with the others... I don't kill most of the time because it isn't right to kill all the time, but when there is one powerful person on top and there is no way I can get enough men to just take him down a ways, THEN I will kill... What do you want me to do? Just sit there 10 places below and watch the emperor rule with huge resources, many men and hitting me and everyone else constantly to make sure he doesn't get dethroned?? If I can stop him and kill him then I will so I can have a chance at the top... Other wise there would be no way I could win! Ususally I just hit people until they are at 10 k and then I leave them alone...

The guy on top has PLENTY of chance to get ready! Whenever I am playing, I am always on the alert for kill runs on me and stuff... Do you think that guys who get on top say, "I am now on top. I will now sit down and pick dasies??" NO! They get ready for defending their position and then take it when others take them down!! They have plenty of chance and if they get killed, then obviously somebody was able to break them and get enough people who support their cause to help kill that person!! If you message the person prior to killing then your advantage of surprise is GONE! They should have plenty of foresight to see that they might get killed soon! The emps fault if he let's himself get killed. Sometimes that's the only way to win... I don't kill all the time.. most of the time I just hit the person on top, hard and take their land and fortify with men... Then I sit back, get ready to get attacked and fight back the next day!

WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE PERSON ON TOP IS GIVING ME A CHANCE??????? ARE YOU OFF YOUR ROCKER??? The only time I kill is when they have tons of men that I can't possibly beat so I take down the units that I can and take their land... That IS my chance! If I don't do that the person will just destroy me back with their extra units that I can't beat! To me the purpose of the game is to fight as hard as you can, kill almost never, take lots of land, get lots of army units and get a high networth! If someone is too high for me to reach then I will take them down and possibly kill... Not all the time though!! Just when I NEED TO!

[Fresh Water Fighters]

OK i will leave this Argument to Rudder and Otter...
I do not want to say anymore before i get cought up in the middle of it...
*laughs*

[The Otter Horde]

Oh com'on! Add your two cents! What do you think?

[Ruddertail]

Sorry, old topic, but this needed a reply. If you guys are too lazy to read this whole thing, a basic summary can be found at the bottom. -Ruddertail

1

If I don't try for the top but just be content that you are the emperor then what fun is that?

What fun is it if I get killed so you can take the top?

2

What do you want me to do? Just sit there 10 places below and watch the emperor rule with huge resources, many men and hitting me and everyone else constantly to make sure he doesn't get dethroned??

That's what you do when you're on top. Again, the problem is not what, but who.

Besides, after the ten-day minimum period required for claiming the title of emp, most people will drop down to give someone else a chance. They may not drop out of first, but they will drop enough someone could pass them.

3

The guy on top has PLENTY of chance to get ready! Whenever I am playing, I am always on the alert for kill runs on me and stuff...

So am I. But when three or four people come out of nowhere with 50 mil mice each and kill me in one run while I'm asleep, there's not much I can do. I can't espy people's messages, and tell when they are comming after me, and I can't guard against the people with 50 million mice while also guarding against the guys with 20 million squirrels on a reasonable amount of land, and still be able to run turns.

Unless I have something insane, like 20 times more land then anybody else in the game, there's no way I can suppport enough mice to stave them off.

4

NO! They get ready for defending their position and then take it when others take them down!!

Yes. They guard against attacks that give them a chance to fight back. When you're killed in one run, you have no chance to fight. And, as I said above, whith reasonable amounts of land, you have little chance of keeping people from breaking you, because someone going 100% mice can generate them faster then someone who has to guard against attacks with all troop types.

5

If you message the person prior to killing then your advantage of surprise is GONE! They should have plenty of foresight to see that they might get killed soon! The emps fault if he let's himself get killed.

See 3 and 4. The emp knows he might suffer a kill run, but what can he do about it? If they've been planning the kill run for any amount of time, then he can't go unbreakable, because if they're smart, they've been going 100% of some troop type for a long time. He can't just go 100% of that troop type, because he doesn't know what it is.

He can't go out and kill them, even if he knows who they are, a kill run takes a long amount of time. Plus, he'll be seen as brutal, because he can't prove they were trying to kill him. If he even knows there's a kill run planned. Knowing one is likley is far different then knowing someone intends to do it, and is planning it for a certain time.

6

WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE PERSON ON TOP IS GIVING ME A CHANCE??????? ARE YOU OFF YOUR ROCKER??? The only time I kill is when they have tons of men that I can't possibly beat so I take down the units that I can and take their land... That IS my chance!

I don't have a rocker. And I don't especially enjoy being asked if I'm crazy. So far this has been a civil arguement, let's keep it that way.

To address your point, he's giving you a chance in that when he attacks you, you can attack him back. When you kill him, he doesn't have a chance to fight back. He's gone before he knew what hit him. I've made this point several times already, but now I have to repeat it.

7

Just when I NEED TO!

You never need to kill, unless they're trying to kill you. Killing may be the easiest way. Dishonerable activities are almost always easier then honerable ones, otherwise, why would anyone risk losing the respect of others to do them?

Killing may be the only way you can do anything at the moment. But, you can always wait. An emperor will often drop after 10 days. In addition, a smaller warband, not having to worry so much about defending, can store more of their troops, focas on one troop type, and soon be able to break him. Once you can break him, you can do damage.

Taking somebody to 2k, or even 10k, when they're an emp, with a lot of land, can hurt a lot. They have to spend their run recovering, rather then getting ahead. If you have a couple of friends helping, you can take turns, two of you make regular runs, while one attacks the emp. That way, you're getting stronger, while he's getting weaker.

*****************************************************************

8 My points are these.
1: It's not more fun for the emp getting killed then it is for you having him reign over you.

2: A:, you do the same thing you complain about, B: Often, all you have to do to have a shot at the top is wait.

3, 4, 5A: The emp cannot go unbreakable against people planning a kill run with enough time. They can go 100% of one troop, he can't, unless he knows that only one kill attempt is being planned, and what troop that group is using. Unlikley, unless he has a very extensive spy network, or cheats.

5B: He also cannot kill all the people involved, because he does not know who they are, does not have the resorces and turns required to kill multiple people, and would be accused, rightly, of being an utter jerk if he did.

5(As a whole):The emp cannot prevent all kill attempts against him, unless he is able to learn about them.

6: You have a chance, because you can retal after he's attacked you. A kill leaves no chance for retal, and, later in the game, it's hard to come back and kill in retal.

7: You never need to kill. I suggest you read at least point 7, if you don't read anything but the summary of the others.

[Nuclear Raunch]

Nobody has ever been untouchable, just revise your strat until you can beat him. There are many, many effective ways to take someone down. You'll find it is *much* more satisfying to take down an empire when you actually earned it.

If you think you are not getting the most benefit out of your empire then simply try posting in the help forum for advice.