Random Thoughts from Ruddertail

[Ruddertail]

266 Turns. That's how many turns are needed for a kill run, according to my calculations. Under ideal conditions, of course, those being:

1) The assumption of 100 attacks to kill is correct.
2) The player has full health to start with.
3) The player has Brome.
4) The player does not have any attacks fail.
5) The has the runes to hawk heal, and does.

Of course, if number of attacks required to kill is more the 100, or any other of these conditions fail to be met, the number of attacks will increase. However, unless the 100 attacks to kill estimate is extreamly off, only failure to meet conditions 3 or 5 could increase the number of turns needed to more then 300. Thoughts?

350 turns. The max number of turns on WOA. Which seems awfully small, if you ask me. Though perhapps required, based on the power of hawk heal, and Brome. Thoughts?

Brome. As shown above, he makes kills extrodinarilly easy, combined with the hawk-heal feature. Perhaps he's over powered. After all, the main complaint against FAF is the ease of kills. Maybe he should be limited in some way... thoughts?

Special Heros... Not all that great, outside of Brome. Martin's certainly useless unless fighting an emp who hits hard. Otherwise, it's really not hard to break anybody...
Perigord is good, I guess, if you run 100% Barracks strat, and expect a lot of losses, but who else would suffer desertion losses often enough to make it worthwile. Thoughts?

It looks a litte goofy writting "thoughts?" at the end of every paragraph... Thoughts?

-Ruddertail

[bjornredtail]

You can expect some losses, unless the target has zero of the trooptype you are using to attack, and you would need to replentish these troops through the early part of the run, else you might simply run out and be unable to break the target.

Point two, how do you get around the hard attack limits? I thought you could only do 20 or so attacks per hour, which would mean some five hours attacking. A lot of time investment, a lot more than most players have.

Point three, rember that turns are being replentished over the course of the run.

[Devari]

Standard attacks make kills substantially more difficult.

Nev, clan war.

But, I agree with Ruddertail one at least one point - Brome is VASTLY overpowered. Perigold and Martin are, while neat ideas, useless compared to Brome's might.

[The Beatles]

Yes. Brome must go.

[gondor]

well that is just silly you cant get rid of heroes buti dont care anyway coz next set im not killing anyone im going to be more like rudder does the right tings *laughs*

[Devari]

Yes, yes we can. Why couldn't we? Brome has been a balance issue for almost a year - as long as the game has been out of beta. Even before that people raised concerns.

[Cfelicio]

I use Brome and yes, he is far better than the other heroes. What if you improve the power of others to make them interesting?

[Devari]

That's an idea, but I'm not sure how they can actually be improved without completely changing their bonuses.

[Urran Voh]

We would need to change the other Special Heroes' bonuses to make Brome less powerful. I had a thought earlier that might persuade some to venture away from Brome: Have a Hero that takes away 1% of your opponent's health for every 1 (or maybe 2) attacks you lay on him. Of course, there will be a limit to where his health would have to stop at. Say 25%?

[Ruddertail]

@ Nev: If you have a reasonable amount of land, and a good advantage in troop numbers, you can keep your troop numbers high just in the turns you spend attacking and healing, that you don't have to build, or spend turns training.
Devari took point 2, and, though turns are replenished during the course of the run, you can't expect much more then 6 - 9 on WOA, and 15 - 20 on BFR. Not that much...

@ Devari: Standards make kills more dificult, but don't cost any more turns then to regular attacks, assuming the person has enough troops to break their opponent in standards.

RE: Brome: No, Brome isn't just an issue of balance, it's an issue of something overpowered. Even if you increased the power of the other heros, Brome would still be a problem in the ease of kills he allows.

I would balance Brome by only making the heal affect work when the player is healing, not hawk-healing, or attacking.

This would mean that it would take 10 attacks to drop a person to 40% health. It would then take 20 turns healing to get back to 100% health. (Hawk-healing would actually be slower, at 24 turns to return to full health).

If one can get in 10 attacks every drop to 40% health, and needed to make 100 attacks, that would mean dropping to 40% health 10 times. 10*20 turns to heal, or 200 turns healing, on top of the 200 turns attacking, would make 400 turns the absolute minimum for a kill run, assuming all circumstances were ideal.

That's substantially more balanced, if you ask me.

[Slasher]

Thats the best thing to do... We don't want to take it out full yor make other heroes more powerfull otherwise it won't go right if you know what i mean.

[Nohc]

Or making Brome heal only when not using the healing spell or normal healing. You could take away his ability to help heal when using normal spells as well, if you want. Making the other heros more powerful is a good idea, but there'd probably be balance issues with that too.

Does anyone know about how much land would someone need to have to kill them in 100 attacks?

[Ruddertail]

I'm assuming average land. I don't know how accurate that figure is, but I've seen a few veterans cite it, so I figure it to be a rough approximation, probably on the low side of things. But I'm not sure...

[Nohc]

Well, if anyone makes a kill, make sure to record the land and the number of successful attacks it took. XD

[Nuclear Raunch]

Number of attacks is dependent on amount of land they have, luck, their build, and the type of attack you use. Here's a couple from Duels. I didn't count failed attacks.


Jess Squirrel (#3) 9,749 acres 128 attacks, built land but lots of STDs (STD attacks gain less land)

Standard Attack (#4) 8,801 acres 125 attacks, built land but lots of STDs

(#5) 4,629 acres 91 attacks. Probably unbuilt land although I'm not positive on that.

Could dig up more kill runs but you get the point. The most hits required was 128, that would require 342 turns for a player with Brome and mana.

There is no doubt that Brome is overpowered. I still think all heroes should have some sort of a penalty associated with them, either as a negative multiplier to some stats, or making them require upkeep of some sort.

@ Devari: Standards make kills more dificult, but don't cost any more turns then to regular attacks, assuming the person has enough troops to break their opponent in standards.

STD attacks give you less land per attack, therefore it takes more attacks to finish someone off.