First of all let's not get into the content of the movie, whether you agree with MM, like him, approve of his style, whatever. I just watched Bowling for Columbine and it made me think about a frequent topic of the time. It's been 7 years now, and I think we've all had a chance to let our emotions settle down some and give it some honest thought. So what do you guys think caused them to do that?
Has Europe had any similiar situations? If not what makes us different from Europe?
Bowling for Columbine
-
Nuclear Raunch
- The Wanderer
- Posts: 950
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 4:30 am
-
The Beatles
- Fear me for I am root
- Posts: 6285
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 8:12 pm
Yes, Europe has them. Well...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_School_Massacre
I remember reading about this. Not sure if he was affiliated.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_sho ... _massacres
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_School_Massacre
I remember reading about this. Not sure if he was affiliated.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_sho ... _massacres
:wq
-
Gen. Volkov
- I'm blue, if I was green I would die.
- Posts: 2342
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:47 pm
- Location: Boringtown, Indiana
Dissaffectation from society? Severe depression combined with being a social outcast? Being a complete and utter psychopath? I think the last one is the reason Nuke. The first two I have experienced, but I have never had the urge to go into school and start shooting. Personally I think that's the only explanation needed. Maybe there's just a bit of the usual teenage stuff in there, combined with whatever was wrong with their brains, but take it from a guy who knows, you have to be alot more screwed up than just being depressed and a social outcast before you start shooting.
It is said that when Rincewind dies, the occult ability of the human race will go UP by a fraction. -Terry Pratchett
-
Nuclear Raunch
- The Wanderer
- Posts: 950
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 4:30 am
-
The Beatles
- Fear me for I am root
- Posts: 6285
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 8:12 pm
I think this sort of stuff happens more in the US, and I think it's only with modernization that it's started to appear, to a very limited extent, in Europe.
At the risk of sounding old-fashioned (though I'm young), there is a very simple reason for it all. Students today do not respect their teachers. This is a very complex problem, and it has several facets, several legitimate reasons. Some are:
1. Many teachers are just in it for the money, schools are businesses.
2. Students have messed-up lives at home, but school doesn't make them feel at home.
3. Students aren't thrashed into obedience anymore.
4. Social values developed in postwar years (60's and 70's) encourage rebellion, not respect. There is a difference between independent thinking and rebellion, but many people today don't understand it.
5. More news reporting of violence (and its appearance in games) dulls people's consciences toward violence.
You bet that if I ever have children, I am going to:
1. Find a school for them that goes against the grain, however difficult it may be to find such a one. My parents found one for me, I can do no less than do the same for my children.
2. Make them feel safe when they are at home, but love school.
3. Instil into them respect for their parents and their school. (See next point.)
4. Thrash them if they don't obey.
5. Not buy them videogames, or a television set (or any of the many mindless PC games such as FPS games). (Good TV programmes and games can be downloaded anyway.)
6. Only give them coverage from decent news-reporting agencies and not the mass press (read BBC, Times, etc.)
7. Teach them to understand the subtleties of the English language, which will allow them to make finer semantic distinctions and be more watchful and open-minded. Sort of like a reverse Newspeak. (See point 4 in the previous list.)
Let me know if I've forgotten something, and if you think I'm old-fashioned, debate the merits of being so.
At the risk of sounding old-fashioned (though I'm young), there is a very simple reason for it all. Students today do not respect their teachers. This is a very complex problem, and it has several facets, several legitimate reasons. Some are:
1. Many teachers are just in it for the money, schools are businesses.
2. Students have messed-up lives at home, but school doesn't make them feel at home.
3. Students aren't thrashed into obedience anymore.
4. Social values developed in postwar years (60's and 70's) encourage rebellion, not respect. There is a difference between independent thinking and rebellion, but many people today don't understand it.
5. More news reporting of violence (and its appearance in games) dulls people's consciences toward violence.
You bet that if I ever have children, I am going to:
1. Find a school for them that goes against the grain, however difficult it may be to find such a one. My parents found one for me, I can do no less than do the same for my children.
2. Make them feel safe when they are at home, but love school.
3. Instil into them respect for their parents and their school. (See next point.)
4. Thrash them if they don't obey.
5. Not buy them videogames, or a television set (or any of the many mindless PC games such as FPS games). (Good TV programmes and games can be downloaded anyway.)
6. Only give them coverage from decent news-reporting agencies and not the mass press (read BBC, Times, etc.)
7. Teach them to understand the subtleties of the English language, which will allow them to make finer semantic distinctions and be more watchful and open-minded. Sort of like a reverse Newspeak. (See point 4 in the previous list.)
Let me know if I've forgotten something, and if you think I'm old-fashioned, debate the merits of being so.
:wq
-
Gen. Volkov
- I'm blue, if I was green I would die.
- Posts: 2342
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:47 pm
- Location: Boringtown, Indiana
I do believe you are correct on this part. The more modernized nations, like western Germany, France, England, basically the ones that were not repressed under the Soviet system probably experience more of it than the ones that were.I think this sort of stuff happens more in the US, and I think it's only with modernization that it's started to appear, to a very limited extent, in Europe.
I do not think you are correct about this, because taking a human life probably does not have much to do with respect for your teachers, maybe respect problems with the world and the value of life in general, but not teacher's specifically. The rest I will address point by point.At the risk of sounding old-fashioned (though I'm young), there is a very simple reason for it all. Students today do not respect their teachers. This is a very complex problem, and it has several facets, several legitimate reasons. Some are:
1. Many teachers are just in it for the money, schools are businesses.
2. Students have messed-up lives at home, but school doesn't make them feel at home.
3. Students aren't thrashed into obedience anymore.
4. Social values developed in postwar years (60's and 70's) encourage rebellion, not respect. There is a difference between independent thinking and rebellion, but many people today don't understand it.
5. More news reporting of violence (and its appearance in games) dulls people's consciences toward violence.
1. Maybe that's true in Europe, but in the US, teachers are some of the lowest paid jobs that require a college education. Most make 30,000 a year or less. All my high school teachers had second jobs.
2. This may be true, but it's not a school's job to make the student feel at home. It's job is to educate them.
3. I agree here, a good smack upside the head would do more for some of these students attitudes than years in detention could.
4. Teenagers have always been rebellious, the 60's and 70's promoting it and making it seem like the norm made it worse, but did not create the problem.
5. I disagree, the news has always reported violence, and TV has always been violent. The only difference is video games, and that's fake violence. In fact I think violent video games provide a good outlet for aggression.
As to what you will do when you have children, no comment except that I agree with most of it, and the rest is your personal decision.
It is said that when Rincewind dies, the occult ability of the human race will go UP by a fraction. -Terry Pratchett
-
The Beatles
- Fear me for I am root
- Posts: 6285
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 8:12 pm
Let's go point by point and skip the points where we agree. 
A. I do think that a student who could think of the very idea of killing his teachers does not have either a loving or a fearing relationship to his teachers, which he should -- ideally both.
1. Actually, it's not so in Hungary -- teachers are so badly paid they often have to take private students just to keep themselves fed. One of my favorite teachers, my math teacher, lived in an apartment with her husband in a flat about as big as 3-4 minivans stacked side-by-side. What I drew on was the observation that in the US, many schools are expected to be run very efficiently and achieve all sorts of tricks to do that, ranging from splitting up jobs to make two half-time jobs (so as not to pay benefits) and other cost-cutting measures that undermine morale and take the pleasure out of the teacher's work.
2. If the school is to educate the student, it must to at least some degree make the student feel at home, or there will be much less motivation for learning and achieving, and for being responsible. This was the point of boarding-schools: if you couldn't make the student feel at home by making the school "nice", at least make it their actual home.
4. Yes, they've always been rebellious, but since the 60's and 70's, society has been telling them that that's good, whereas in the previous 6000 years or so it has been telling them that it's bad.
5. 60 years ago there wasn't TV, and most newspapers did not report on every little murder because they were limited to important news. That's what I'm talking about. About video games, I'm just saying they make people used to the sight of aggression.
Thanks for the discussion! I'm really enjoying the meaningful conversation that it's hard to get around here in IRL (little time for it).
A. I do think that a student who could think of the very idea of killing his teachers does not have either a loving or a fearing relationship to his teachers, which he should -- ideally both.
1. Actually, it's not so in Hungary -- teachers are so badly paid they often have to take private students just to keep themselves fed. One of my favorite teachers, my math teacher, lived in an apartment with her husband in a flat about as big as 3-4 minivans stacked side-by-side. What I drew on was the observation that in the US, many schools are expected to be run very efficiently and achieve all sorts of tricks to do that, ranging from splitting up jobs to make two half-time jobs (so as not to pay benefits) and other cost-cutting measures that undermine morale and take the pleasure out of the teacher's work.
2. If the school is to educate the student, it must to at least some degree make the student feel at home, or there will be much less motivation for learning and achieving, and for being responsible. This was the point of boarding-schools: if you couldn't make the student feel at home by making the school "nice", at least make it their actual home.
4. Yes, they've always been rebellious, but since the 60's and 70's, society has been telling them that that's good, whereas in the previous 6000 years or so it has been telling them that it's bad.
5. 60 years ago there wasn't TV, and most newspapers did not report on every little murder because they were limited to important news. That's what I'm talking about. About video games, I'm just saying they make people used to the sight of aggression.
Thanks for the discussion! I'm really enjoying the meaningful conversation that it's hard to get around here in IRL (little time for it).
:wq
-
Gen. Volkov
- I'm blue, if I was green I would die.
- Posts: 2342
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:47 pm
- Location: Boringtown, Indiana
A. Wouldn't being scared of your teachers make you want to kill them even more, as a revenge for all the stuff they have inflicted on you? So I don't think it's a lack of respect, I think it's the product of a very sick mind.
1. That might be true of the school corporations in some areas of the country, but the majority of teachers go in to teaching for the love of the job. And it's not really that the schools are expected to be run that way, they HAVE to be run that way, because the funding of the public schools forces those kinds of budget constraints on them. It's not like they want to make a profit, you can't because the only revenues are from books, and they can't charge that much for them. It's government funding, and the government is stingy.
2. I thought the idea of boarding schools was for rich parents to be rid of their kids for 9 months of the year. *laughs*. But no really, I think the edjucation and learning is up to the student, because no matter how nice the teacher's are, and how much they try to make school your home, the teacher's still have to teach, and a school is never going to be like home. I guess that's the European vs. American attitude right there. Americans say it's up to the individual and the family, Europeans say it's up to the system.
4. Isn't that basically what I said? And really societal norms have shifted so much in the last 500 years that teenagers being rebellious now is problem, whereas 500 years ago you were basically kicked out when you hit 15. So really society has only had to deal with rebellious teenagers for the past 400 years or so, unless you were royalty, in which case being rebellious was generally not an option, though some teenagers probably still tried.
5. Well TV was first "invented" in the 1930's, but you are correct that it didn't become widespread until the 50's. And newspapers did not have the access to information that they do nowadays, murders were only reported for the immediate area, plus newspapers have gotten longer. They've gone from being sold on the street by paperboys to being delievered in most cases. The closer nit telecommunications has made the world, the more there has been to report on, and most of that news is violence, which is what sells. Which would you rather read, "Everything is perfect and dandy, world at peace" Or "WAR!!!"? Violence sells because people read it. More people watched Fox News and CNN and MSNBC during the Iraq war than during the presidential election. Video games... it's too fake to really "get used" to violence, in my opinion.
And your welcome, I always enjoy discussions with you. The people I used to have these discussions with are either out of town or horribly busy.
1. That might be true of the school corporations in some areas of the country, but the majority of teachers go in to teaching for the love of the job. And it's not really that the schools are expected to be run that way, they HAVE to be run that way, because the funding of the public schools forces those kinds of budget constraints on them. It's not like they want to make a profit, you can't because the only revenues are from books, and they can't charge that much for them. It's government funding, and the government is stingy.
2. I thought the idea of boarding schools was for rich parents to be rid of their kids for 9 months of the year. *laughs*. But no really, I think the edjucation and learning is up to the student, because no matter how nice the teacher's are, and how much they try to make school your home, the teacher's still have to teach, and a school is never going to be like home. I guess that's the European vs. American attitude right there. Americans say it's up to the individual and the family, Europeans say it's up to the system.
4. Isn't that basically what I said? And really societal norms have shifted so much in the last 500 years that teenagers being rebellious now is problem, whereas 500 years ago you were basically kicked out when you hit 15. So really society has only had to deal with rebellious teenagers for the past 400 years or so, unless you were royalty, in which case being rebellious was generally not an option, though some teenagers probably still tried.
5. Well TV was first "invented" in the 1930's, but you are correct that it didn't become widespread until the 50's. And newspapers did not have the access to information that they do nowadays, murders were only reported for the immediate area, plus newspapers have gotten longer. They've gone from being sold on the street by paperboys to being delievered in most cases. The closer nit telecommunications has made the world, the more there has been to report on, and most of that news is violence, which is what sells. Which would you rather read, "Everything is perfect and dandy, world at peace" Or "WAR!!!"? Violence sells because people read it. More people watched Fox News and CNN and MSNBC during the Iraq war than during the presidential election. Video games... it's too fake to really "get used" to violence, in my opinion.
And your welcome, I always enjoy discussions with you. The people I used to have these discussions with are either out of town or horribly busy.
It is said that when Rincewind dies, the occult ability of the human race will go UP by a fraction. -Terry Pratchett
-
windhound
- Fish Rocketh, cows sucketh
- Posts: 1030
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:36 pm
- Location: Ze Ocean
teachers in the US are for the most part powerless
they cannot whip, threaten, or otherwise give incentives for students to behave
...as bad as that sounds. I've seen many cases where if the teacher was allowed to paddle, whip or otherwise punish the student things would have gone better.. humiliation can also be a teacher (dropping your pants in a room full of your peers and having the teacher twack you a few times prob. aint fun)
in the 'olden days' kids also feared getting a call home, as their parents would kill them.. most parents today dont seem to care as much, and find their children blameless
there's also an oversensitiveness
there was a highschool teacher fired about a year ago because after school he held a /voluntary/ experiment, the gallon challenge.. where you try to drink a gallon of milk in under an hour. If you fail you throwup, and most do
note that this was voluntary. some parents got upset, and pushed and prodded the administrators to do somthin about it. as a result the teacher got sacked
then again, my highschool physics teacher, one of my worst teachers, had multiple complaints filed against her by many many students. turns out she was an old friend of the principal and has been bounced around to different schools for a while now
my brother's (amaroq) middle school teachers were rather aweful. they were about a year or so from retirement and dead tired of teaching
meh. some video games were never made to be played by kids, but due mostly to irresponsible parents are. GTA is a good example. walk around the streets and kill people, I think one of the weapons of choice is a chainsaw. Hitman as well.. strangle people with pieces of wire and smother with plastic bags, all with violent cutsenes..
however, some FPS [halo, ut] are fun to play around with, as long as you're mature enough to realise the difference between whats on the screen and reallife.
oh. and there is a certain sence of invinciblility amoung youth. there's a 'game' played where one kid chokes another till they pass out. apprently it gives feeling of being high. so some kids have made nooses and litterally hung themselves.
...fear is different. a student paddled by a teacher may feel vengful, but may be less likely to act for fear of the consequences.
they cannot whip, threaten, or otherwise give incentives for students to behave
...as bad as that sounds. I've seen many cases where if the teacher was allowed to paddle, whip or otherwise punish the student things would have gone better.. humiliation can also be a teacher (dropping your pants in a room full of your peers and having the teacher twack you a few times prob. aint fun)
in the 'olden days' kids also feared getting a call home, as their parents would kill them.. most parents today dont seem to care as much, and find their children blameless
there's also an oversensitiveness
there was a highschool teacher fired about a year ago because after school he held a /voluntary/ experiment, the gallon challenge.. where you try to drink a gallon of milk in under an hour. If you fail you throwup, and most do
note that this was voluntary. some parents got upset, and pushed and prodded the administrators to do somthin about it. as a result the teacher got sacked
then again, my highschool physics teacher, one of my worst teachers, had multiple complaints filed against her by many many students. turns out she was an old friend of the principal and has been bounced around to different schools for a while now
my brother's (amaroq) middle school teachers were rather aweful. they were about a year or so from retirement and dead tired of teaching
meh. some video games were never made to be played by kids, but due mostly to irresponsible parents are. GTA is a good example. walk around the streets and kill people, I think one of the weapons of choice is a chainsaw. Hitman as well.. strangle people with pieces of wire and smother with plastic bags, all with violent cutsenes..
however, some FPS [halo, ut] are fun to play around with, as long as you're mature enough to realise the difference between whats on the screen and reallife.
oh. and there is a certain sence of invinciblility amoung youth. there's a 'game' played where one kid chokes another till they pass out. apprently it gives feeling of being high. so some kids have made nooses and litterally hung themselves.
...fear is different. a student paddled by a teacher may feel vengful, but may be less likely to act for fear of the consequences.
Hobbs FTW!
-
The Beatles
- Fear me for I am root
- Posts: 6285
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 8:12 pm
A. No, only a student who wasn't truly afraid of their teacher would dare to raise a gun to them. A student who either feared or loved his teacher would not even think of such a thing. (I guess this is also what windy is saying.)
1. Well, I have personal experience with community colleges if not highschools. In a CC which I do not wish to name, there are about 50 full-time faculty and 350 part-time faculty. This is a clear bid to reduce benefits costs, and most teachers are quite unmotivated to teach. Maybe this is different for highschools.
2. No, Europeans don't say it's up to the system. We just tend to say that it's the teachers' responsibility to teach the students and the family's responsibility to make sure that the teacher is teaching and the student is learning. If you catch my drift. Beyond that, my family always tried to instil in me a love for school -- which was not difficult as they had a large library. And ultimately even the choice of school was such as to make this task easy. So my family personally believes that it is important for the school to be a home away from home for the student, and many leading psychologists in Hungary agree on that too. Don't know how it is here. About boarding school, I don't honestly know which was the original purpose: to get kids away, or to make sure kids learned.
4. Yes, that is what you said, but what I'm saying is it's not rebellion that's the problem -- that's completely normal -- but the condoning of rebellion as the norm. Perhaps I'm just making a silly distinction, but I feel there is something to it when the student is quasi-encouraged to disobey.
5. Well, then we do agree on this point. Whether or not it is preferrable, the last generation has been exposed to much more violence and anti-ethical actions than previous generations, and I claim that this too plays a role in the situations Nuke mentions. You claim it doesn't, correct?
6. Windy brings up a great issue: in Europe teachers are afforded many more liberties than here. It's true that thrashing is out of vogue, but that's about the only restriction I know of. Of course, it's changing as Hungary has gone into mad capitalism and all the nouveau riche with 3 brain cells who think they know about education are talking with their money.
7. Another issue: Is it true that many people nowadays care less about their kids' performance in school? (Thanks windy.) In rural families or past generations there is/was a huge respect accorded to academic achievement, as it was seen as a "way up and out", but today's Joe sixpack with his big car and great standard of living may not much care how his kids do in education.
1. Well, I have personal experience with community colleges if not highschools. In a CC which I do not wish to name, there are about 50 full-time faculty and 350 part-time faculty. This is a clear bid to reduce benefits costs, and most teachers are quite unmotivated to teach. Maybe this is different for highschools.
2. No, Europeans don't say it's up to the system. We just tend to say that it's the teachers' responsibility to teach the students and the family's responsibility to make sure that the teacher is teaching and the student is learning. If you catch my drift. Beyond that, my family always tried to instil in me a love for school -- which was not difficult as they had a large library. And ultimately even the choice of school was such as to make this task easy. So my family personally believes that it is important for the school to be a home away from home for the student, and many leading psychologists in Hungary agree on that too. Don't know how it is here. About boarding school, I don't honestly know which was the original purpose: to get kids away, or to make sure kids learned.
4. Yes, that is what you said, but what I'm saying is it's not rebellion that's the problem -- that's completely normal -- but the condoning of rebellion as the norm. Perhaps I'm just making a silly distinction, but I feel there is something to it when the student is quasi-encouraged to disobey.
5. Well, then we do agree on this point. Whether or not it is preferrable, the last generation has been exposed to much more violence and anti-ethical actions than previous generations, and I claim that this too plays a role in the situations Nuke mentions. You claim it doesn't, correct?
6. Windy brings up a great issue: in Europe teachers are afforded many more liberties than here. It's true that thrashing is out of vogue, but that's about the only restriction I know of. Of course, it's changing as Hungary has gone into mad capitalism and all the nouveau riche with 3 brain cells who think they know about education are talking with their money.
7. Another issue: Is it true that many people nowadays care less about their kids' performance in school? (Thanks windy.) In rural families or past generations there is/was a huge respect accorded to academic achievement, as it was seen as a "way up and out", but today's Joe sixpack with his big car and great standard of living may not much care how his kids do in education.
:wq
-
Freenhult
- 13th Division Captain
- Posts: 3380
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:30 am
- Location: Valparaiso
- Contact:
I've got me a little bonus time so I'd thought I'd drop by quick-like. If you'll excuse my 2 cents...
A. Any type of teacher who instill fear and such is going to be targeted. Teachers who are really nice are going to be run all over. So no matter what you do...Your either gonna end up shot or be completely walked over. I can go on experience as I just got out of a HS environment, and say that I have teachers that I love...and others I would have like to yelled at.
1) My most like teacher was the one that ran our Science Olympiad program. He and his wife both worked low paying jobs with children. Both of them are very smart and such, and could work for some good places making way more. They both clain that the want to do this because they like it. I really haven't meet an un-motivated teacher...except for subs.
2) Schools are not home...nor do they need to be. School doesn't have to be boring, but it shouldn't be fun. If anything...it needs to be more serious. Sorry guys...but we need to get like China or somethin' cause they are way more educated than we are. Plus...If school was more like home...I would work less. Not harder. (When I mean more educated...I don't mean totally smarter...just that well...they are, and they will work harder because of the expectations of family and country) The problem isn't how school looks...its what your parents are doing. Do your best...or get beat. That was my policy. I didn't get all A's...but I never got in trouble for it. Unless I slacked.
3) Yeah...Kids need to be beat. Personally...My mom still scares me when she's mad. You think I let her get mad? Imagine being 8 with that...*Shudders*
4) Kids will be kids...They don't want any adult to help them because they want to be empowered. Its more prevelent today, because of 3. I'm most definately not a rebel...well...atleast I'm controlled.
5) Video games do NOT....NOT make you want to kill people. Nor do the desensitise you at all. Windy is exactly right...if all the stupid parents in the world actully did their job as a parent...I'd guaranty that the overall death's in the world would drop. Not alot...but some. TV or the newpaper does not make you want to kill more. Volkov is right too. Killing is an instinct...Everyone has it. That is what makes us an animal. We are still animals even though we are advanced...we all just forget that...every thing kills.
As much stuff as I have killed in video games...When we fought our paintball wars...(they got rough, and then bad.) people got hurt all the time. Explosions and just fierce combat...thats what desesitises you. Actually doing it. Playing Halo everyday most definately didn't prepare me at all for what I saw. Now I understand that it wasn't truey a reflection of a real war...but I mean...I saw some rough stuff. Made me think twice about joining the Navy...thats for sure.
Okay all...I'll try to pop in tommarow to reply...but I have to go now...
A. Any type of teacher who instill fear and such is going to be targeted. Teachers who are really nice are going to be run all over. So no matter what you do...Your either gonna end up shot or be completely walked over. I can go on experience as I just got out of a HS environment, and say that I have teachers that I love...and others I would have like to yelled at.
1) My most like teacher was the one that ran our Science Olympiad program. He and his wife both worked low paying jobs with children. Both of them are very smart and such, and could work for some good places making way more. They both clain that the want to do this because they like it. I really haven't meet an un-motivated teacher...except for subs.
2) Schools are not home...nor do they need to be. School doesn't have to be boring, but it shouldn't be fun. If anything...it needs to be more serious. Sorry guys...but we need to get like China or somethin' cause they are way more educated than we are. Plus...If school was more like home...I would work less. Not harder. (When I mean more educated...I don't mean totally smarter...just that well...they are, and they will work harder because of the expectations of family and country) The problem isn't how school looks...its what your parents are doing. Do your best...or get beat. That was my policy. I didn't get all A's...but I never got in trouble for it. Unless I slacked.
3) Yeah...Kids need to be beat. Personally...My mom still scares me when she's mad. You think I let her get mad? Imagine being 8 with that...*Shudders*
4) Kids will be kids...They don't want any adult to help them because they want to be empowered. Its more prevelent today, because of 3. I'm most definately not a rebel...well...atleast I'm controlled.
5) Video games do NOT....NOT make you want to kill people. Nor do the desensitise you at all. Windy is exactly right...if all the stupid parents in the world actully did their job as a parent...I'd guaranty that the overall death's in the world would drop. Not alot...but some. TV or the newpaper does not make you want to kill more. Volkov is right too. Killing is an instinct...Everyone has it. That is what makes us an animal. We are still animals even though we are advanced...we all just forget that...every thing kills.
As much stuff as I have killed in video games...When we fought our paintball wars...(they got rough, and then bad.) people got hurt all the time. Explosions and just fierce combat...thats what desesitises you. Actually doing it. Playing Halo everyday most definately didn't prepare me at all for what I saw. Now I understand that it wasn't truey a reflection of a real war...but I mean...I saw some rough stuff. Made me think twice about joining the Navy...thats for sure.
Okay all...I'll try to pop in tommarow to reply...but I have to go now...
Nami kotogotoku, waga tate to nare. Ikazuchi kotogotoku, waga yaiba to nare. Sōgyo no Kotowari!
波悉く我が盾となれ雷悉く我が刃となれ,双魚の理 !
Every wave be my shield, every lightning become my blade!
波悉く我が盾となれ雷悉く我が刃となれ,双魚の理 !
Every wave be my shield, every lightning become my blade!
Being one who has a good chance of ending up in the teaching field, I would of course like to comment... But right now, I need to get some rest. Modern medicine is amazing, but one needs rest too.
If you go down to the woods today, you better not go alone
It's a lovely day in the woods today, but safer to stay at home
BECAUSE EVIL FREEN IS KILLING ALL THE TEDDY BEARS AT THEIR PICNIC
It's a lovely day in the woods today, but safer to stay at home
BECAUSE EVIL FREEN IS KILLING ALL THE TEDDY BEARS AT THEIR PICNIC
-
bjornredtail
- Warbands Admin
- Posts: 821
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:07 am
- Contact:
60+ years ago there was still was sensationalism. It became known yellow journalism... For example, take a look at some of the coverage leading up to the Spanish-American War. To be fair though, widespread brodcasting, multimedia and a global packet-switched computer network do make it easier to do these days...5. 60 years ago there wasn't TV, and most newspapers did not report on every little murder because they were limited to important news. That's what I'm talking about. About video games, I'm just saying they make people used to the sight of aggression.
0===)=B=j=o=r=n==R=e=d=t=a=i=l==>
Warbands Admin
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence!"-Edsger W. Dijkstra
Warbands Admin
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence!"-Edsger W. Dijkstra
-
The Beatles
- Fear me for I am root
- Posts: 6285
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 8:12 pm
Freen, have seen your points and will respond, but quick note: the availability of guns may have something to do with it. Americans are very independent-minded, and in some cases out West are a generation or two away from huntin' and shootin' Indians. So having a gun is much more common in the US, I'd guess. Certainly more so than in Eastern bloc countries where owning a gun for a non-party member was illegal. So that may have something to do with it.
Another thing may be just society, in Hungary there hasn't really been a generation that grew up without Communism yet, so mindless violence is really an unusual course to take; and fear of authority is very much still there.
Another thing may be just society, in Hungary there hasn't really been a generation that grew up without Communism yet, so mindless violence is really an unusual course to take; and fear of authority is very much still there.
:wq
-
Nuclear Raunch
- The Wanderer
- Posts: 950
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 4:30 am
1: Figures vary greatly, but a conservative estimate of media coverage of homicides estimates it to be at least 5X greater than it was 10 years ago.
2: I think Beatles is right on the rebellion. While rebellion has always been present in teenagers it's never been encouraged as it is today.
3: Video games. Haha, ok maybe that's just a bogus excuse people use to put blame on something they don't mind getting rid of. Just felt like adding it for a laugh.
4: Parenting is one of the biggest issues with kids today. How often do kids nowdays have a parent at home? I'm not sure what the percentage of families with dual working parents, but I know it's astronomical. To make matters worse they often times place their jobs over their kids. They may not do it consciously, and they will invariably deny doing so, but that does not change the fact that they do.
5: Picture this, a man is trying to teach his kid that violence is not the answer, and if you have a problem with someone you talk to them, you don't go take them out. Let's say the child does not live under a rock and hears of the US wiping out Grenada, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Panama, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Sudan, Afghanistan, and Kosovo. It's not like we as a country discourage violence, why are we so surprised when it happens to affect our youth? BTW that list is from the 80's and newer.
6: In the instance of Columbine there was an enormous amount of pressure put on the kids to excel in school. In other places there was not as much. In Elfurt (the only European school shooting that involved a student perpetrator on Wiki's list) there was a tremendous amount of pressure as well.
7: Who does this look like?
EDIT: Just saw your post Beatles, if I'm not mistaken gun ownership in the US was relatively low at the time of Columbine. (it soared after 9/11) Before Columbine it was very easy to get, it's still easy to get in other countries with murder rates 1/20th of ours.
2: I think Beatles is right on the rebellion. While rebellion has always been present in teenagers it's never been encouraged as it is today.
3: Video games. Haha, ok maybe that's just a bogus excuse people use to put blame on something they don't mind getting rid of. Just felt like adding it for a laugh.
4: Parenting is one of the biggest issues with kids today. How often do kids nowdays have a parent at home? I'm not sure what the percentage of families with dual working parents, but I know it's astronomical. To make matters worse they often times place their jobs over their kids. They may not do it consciously, and they will invariably deny doing so, but that does not change the fact that they do.
5: Picture this, a man is trying to teach his kid that violence is not the answer, and if you have a problem with someone you talk to them, you don't go take them out. Let's say the child does not live under a rock and hears of the US wiping out Grenada, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Panama, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Sudan, Afghanistan, and Kosovo. It's not like we as a country discourage violence, why are we so surprised when it happens to affect our youth? BTW that list is from the 80's and newer.
6: In the instance of Columbine there was an enormous amount of pressure put on the kids to excel in school. In other places there was not as much. In Elfurt (the only European school shooting that involved a student perpetrator on Wiki's list) there was a tremendous amount of pressure as well.
7: Who does this look like?
EDIT: Just saw your post Beatles, if I'm not mistaken gun ownership in the US was relatively low at the time of Columbine. (it soared after 9/11) Before Columbine it was very easy to get, it's still easy to get in other countries with murder rates 1/20th of ours.
I know the voices in my head arn't real but they usually have some pretty good ideas.
-
Members connected in real time
