Politics - American

[Philip]

Phil, still here?

"Interesting gossip
Undefined said Undefined posted that particular one because all the PS films are linked as related from it"? Phil still here?

[The Beatles]

Great, he works! And he won't break again in the future.

[Philip]

Great, he works! And he won't break again in the future.

Thanks for your support. I get it. too
works. I get it. too
won't break again in the future.

[Gen. Volkov]

meh
I still say Bush was the lesser of two weavils (even though I apparently missed this topic)
Kerry has demonstrated his idiocy quite a bit, even recently
with all the bad press bush had before he was reelected it should have been an easy win for the democratic party. They chose Kerry, apparently the best dem. for the job. They lost because he was a complete wishy-washy moron. The only reasons he got as many votes as he did was because people just wanted bush out, I saw evidence of this as I skimmed the topic.

I just wanna know where all the good candidates went. The lesser of two evils should not be my choice dammit! Where have our Eisenhowers and Roosevelts gone? Why is the last Kennedy so soaked in alcohol that we can't light a match around him? Anyone remember JFK and Camelot? (OK, bit a of a myth that, but I'm illustrating a point here) Kennedy said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Bush said "Strategery". WHAT FRIGGING HAPPENED?????

[windhound]

I've gotta look up that quote from hitchhiker's again..
"those that want to hold power must under no circumstance be allowed to" or some such

the most qualified people to run the government probably dont want to.
many of the people seen as 'great' today were not nearly as popular or well-thought-of as they are now.
people do things, then predict and hope they acted for the best

many people seem to think the nuking of hiroshima and nagusaki (sp) was an unnessisary blow to an already crumbling military. but they had not yet surrendered, and who knows exactly what would have happened if the bombs had not been dropped.. or worse, if the bombs had not gone off.

anyways
it'll be interresting. I'm going to go ahead and predict that the next us pres. is a democrat
all assuming the things in iraq etc. have not worked out by then, I'd be curious to see how they're handled
many people are quick to critise actions without offering an alternative. or worse, focus all on past and not what should be done now.
if Iraq is not stabilized before everyone pulls out then it will be reduced back to a state of chaos ruled by militant groups. is that our problem? *shrug*

[The Beatles]

Churchill was very strongly resented by almost all of No. 10 while he was trying to run the war when Chamberlain was PM, and for a few months into his tenure as PM. Eventually, though, he won over the hearts and minds of the entire British leadership, just well after he'd won the nation over as well. Today, he's regarded as the greatest Briton. In 1939, he was regarded as a power-hungry charlatan warmonger.

EDIT: In case that's unclear, I am not saying that in support of any candidate, I'm unhappy with all of the American leadership ATM. I say that to back up windy's statement that the past's greats weren't always perceived as such at the time.

[Gen. Volkov]

Meh, I know, but let's just put it this way.. I don't see Bush acting like FDR in the near future.

[The Beatles]

I know. I did say that I wrote that NOT in defence of any of the current crop.

[Nuclear Raunch]

Not that I thought Kerry was a great candidate, but I think we would have been a hell of a lot better off with him in charge. My best analogy of my feelings on these two is this: If those two were in Salt Lake City and they had to drive to New York Bush would drive west pedal to the metal the entire way, ignoring maps, road signs, or anything else that would have warned him that he was going the wrong direction. Kerry wouldn't make it more than 50 miles from Salt Lake, but at the end of the day who's closer to the goal?

Even if we treaded water so to speak we would have still been *much* better off than we are right now. Off the top of my head I can't think of any area of Bush's Presidency that I would consider a success. There's not too many prior Presidents that we can say that about.

And about the Kerry being wishy washy thing, it's a negative campaign ad used to persuade voters that he wouldn't be the best choice for the war on terror. A no-brainer since the election would almost assuredly hinge upon the war on terror. It's pretty easy to do as well. If I asked you if you'd like to buy my car for $1, you'd be a fool not to agree. If I asked you if you'd like to buy my car for $100,000 you would probably say no. (If you would say yes, PM me immediately ) Then I can turn around and say, "At first he wanted the car, then he voted against it. This guy is too spineless to make a good President. The American people have to have a strong President in these troubled times blah, blah, blah."

[The Beatles]

I cannot vote, so I was spared this dilemma. However, it must be said that Kerry didn't outline any policy as such: his campaign was basically to set himself up as an antithesis of Bush. Which, as you say, would probably have been good, but is a pretty silly election strategy.

[Gen. Volkov]

Beatles point is exactly why I voted for Bush in '04. I'm not really proud of it, but I find it hard to vote for someone who's only real platform is "I'm not Bush". The same thing happened this election, only this time, the democrats saying "We're not republicans" worked, because basically all the democrats had to do was not screw up. The republicans had already lost the election by themselves. It's the equivalent of taking a knee in the closing minute of a football game. All you have to do is not lose the ball and you win. Course this election I tried my best not to vote for either party.

Bush's economic policies did work Nuke. The Dow is higher than it's ever been and the economy is well out of the post-9/11 recession and on it's way to a boom. It just took 5 odd years for the effects of what he did to be felt. Prolly would have happened sooner if not for 9/11. It was already headed into a slump at the beginning of Bush's term, the internet company bubble had just burst, and Clinton's 8 years of rather neglectful economic policies were starting to be felt. So I would consider that a success.

Kerry is a bit wishy-washy. He made that gaff in his joke before the election, calling the American soldiers stupid, and then the next day said he would never apologize for it, then the very next day, he apologizes. Course the same could be said for Bush in a way. He said he wouldn't get rid of Rumsfeld, and then lets Rummy resign, but it's not quite the same, cause he didn't fire Rumsfeld.

Honestly, I don't think Kerry would have made a better president than Bush. They were both utterly crappy candidates. I doubt Kerry had anymore of an idea of how to get out of Iraq than Bush does. I think he would have done what we did in Vietnam and just pulled out, leaving the country to collapse and become an even worse breeding ground for terrorists. But that's all conjecture of the highest order.

[windhound - nli]

no
I had an audio clip with so much kerry wishy-washyness it made me grin and wonder if the guy was sane
"I said I voted for the bill [to send more money to troops in iraq] before I voted against it" is one of the ones that stands out in my mind. if you wish I can track down that audio clip, shouldnt be too hard to find.

Theres many things Bush has done right
however, because the media loves things that sell, and good news doesnt sell as well as bad, all we ever hear about is the bad stuffs.
Its near-impossible to be president of the US for near 6 years and not have done atleast some things right, even if by accident

If you try to please everyone you wont please anyone.

Apparently Rumsfield has tried to resign atleast two times in the past, but Bush said No. I guess this time he figgured he should let him go.

[Nuclear Raunch]

Beatles: To me the most damning bit of evidence against Kerry, and a likely reason for his defeat, was his choice of campaign manager. The guy has done it with I believe 5 prior Presidential campaigns and lost every single one. His inability to get effective people in his campaign tells me he would probably do the same as President with his cabinet. And if that's the case the more wishy washy he is the happier I'd be, since I'd rather do nothing than do something wrong.

Volkov: Bush's economic policies worked for who? Last time I checked the only segment of the entire US population that improved their financial status was the wealthy. Everyone else is now making less money than they were before Bush took office. $1,300 a year less to be precise. Don't forget that it will take us decades if not centuries of great economic leadership (yeah, I'm holding my breath to) for us to get out of the hole he dug for us. Hell, if we can just pay the interest on what he's borrowed for the next 20 years I'll be VERY impressed. I have a hard-on for fiscal responsibility so things like that bother me, but unfortunately with the way people nowadays are trained to live on credit cards I'm in a quickly shrinking minority.

I can't believe a city councilman would be stupid enough to make a comment like that, let alone a former Presidential candidate. He did have a joke well set up, but the punchline should have been something about Bush's cabinet rather than a soldier. Not that I don't disagree with the simple fact that the military is a haven for the "intellectually challenged", that's just not something one in the public eye should say.

Windy reminded me of something, what was the point behind Rummy leaving? Everyone knew he was a political liability coming in to the election, so if they were planning on replacing him why not do it before the election? And if it's a response to the election results, why bother? It's too early for that to help you in the next election, if you're trying to do it to gain cooperation from Democrats why not wait until the new Congress/Senate convenes? That way it's fresh in their minds, or even offer up his head in exchange for passage of XYZ.

[The Beatles]

OT: I think Bush would be a lot less controversial if he learned to speak & spell properly. I mean, a month in an elocution class has fixed far worse cases; as for spelling, memorize a dictionary. Bingo: appearances are very important.

[Freenhult]

To me... His speaking isn't that big idea. It doesn't show that he isn't educated, but it makes him appear more like the average person. I like that in a way. But there is a limit to how far that should go and all.