New Player vs Old Player Interactions

[Freenhult]

Okay. I was attempting in BFR to do some private research. I wanted to see how members of the community responded to a new player acting either.

1.Noobish
2.Annoying

However, amidst my study, I was onlined by a retaliatory measure so I must defend my self.

However, I did pick out 4 people to test. Arthus, Ruddertail, Japan, and Shadow. All to measure reactions and what they did to encourage the person to either change ways or something else.

Arthus main approach was to ridicule the person and harrass them back, feeding the noobishness and annoying. I had a feeling Rudder would have done the same as me and attempt to pull them in and gain trust and attempt to help them learn how to correctly play. Didn't have an idea for Japan or Shadow.

My main concern isn't who did what, it is what do people do when they encounter this situation. Noobs harassing newbies is going/can be a serious problem, but how should a vet act when they get in this situation? We can manipulate the code to our whim practically since we know what we're doing. As a community, I'm worried about our procedures in this matter and what we can do to prevent exactly what happened to me from happening.

[Shadow I]

I think you should have finished your test before going to war You must have expected retal if you were going to go through with this.

[Freenhult]

No. Not really. I wasn't expecting a physical attack. More or less at least. I was expecting more dialog.

[Shadow I]

I'm sad you didn't get around to testing me. I'm curious as to how I would have reacted too

Not that I want you to online me now that I know who you are

[Freenhult]

I didn't online anyone Shadow. Thats the point I made earlier. If you come online during my run, you're at fault. Not me. Onlining is intentional harm. That wasn't. Arthus online'd me.

[windhound]

I find you're a little quick jumping to conclusions Shadow
You threatened my RWL Turbo account on the word of someone who is known to be... well. Known to overreact. I'm curious to know just how many messages he sent out begging people to destroy me... and if he ever sent out a followup when I informed him of his error (he seems to have grudgingly admitted no harm done... grudgingly)
Throwing out threats without doing a cursory check is silly, especially when you're roughly 6x bigger
...
Then you called me Shade, which I rather resent

---
There's not much you can do about that Freen, really
Unless you simply prevent attacking people who are online... which means people will camp
And you cant control via the code how members interact.. If a newbie says "I can has food?" you cant stop the other player saying "GTFO" ... well, there's the word filter, but yeah
In a game that depends heavily on the interactions between players you cant hope for everyone to be nice

I'm not all that sure what you're trying to do, other than draw attention to the fact that some players will help newbies and some players will crush newbies
Other than encourage niceness and civility I dont think there's much that /can/ be done

[Shadow I]

I find you're a little quick jumping to conclusions Shadow
You threatened my RWL Turbo account on the word of someone who is known to be... well. Known to overreact. I'm curious to know just how many messages he sent out begging people to destroy me... and if he ever sent out a followup when I informed him of his error (he seems to have grudgingly admitted no harm done... grudgingly)
Throwing out threats without doing a cursory check is silly, especially when you're roughly 6x bigger
...
Then you called me Shade, which I rather resent

---
There's not much you can do about that Freen, really
Unless you simply prevent attacking people who are online... which means people will camp
And you cant control via the code how members interact.. If a newbie says "I can has food?" you cant stop the other player saying "GTFO" ... well, there's the word filter, but yeah
In a game that depends heavily on the interactions between players you cant hope for everyone to be nice

I'm not all that sure what you're trying to do, other than draw attention to the fact that some players will help newbies and some players will crush newbies
Other than encourage niceness and civility I dont think there's much that /can/ be done

That was you? Wow *laughs*

I was told that you onlined someone, and I just assumed they knew what the term meant. The only person I knew who would intentionally online Bear would be Shade. My mistake. Although the "hiring noobs" comment was unnecessary, I already successfully defended myself on that score.

Back on topic.. I really have nothing to add at the moment

[Freenhult]

Thats right Windy. I just want to encourage and remind everyone that we need to keep our cool around newbs. They might actually want to learn or they might wanna be rude. Its hard to say, but give them a break. Direct them towards someone who will help them. They might not know onlining is a bad thing.

[windhound]

Ah, but if it looks like it may be a newer player Shadow the thing to do would have been say "Avoid online attacking, its not nice" or some such... not a threat
And I was just going for some kind of response at that point, though it is true enough

And alright Freen, I thought you were aiming at actual changes to the game to make people be nicer... but encouraging niceness is doable

[Shadow I]

Ah, but if it looks like it may be a newer player Shadow the thing to do would have been say "Avoid online attacking, its not nice" or some such...  not a threat
And I was just going for some kind of response at that point, though it is true enough 

And alright Freen, I thought you were aiming at actual changes to the game to make people be nicer...  but encouraging niceness is doable

You didn't look like new player - new players would have a hard time getting 100mil net using stoat. But you're right, I should have asked what happened before threatening.

Hiring noobs was something I did once in retaliation to Shade's doing it to me for 4 rounds non stop. I have never done it to somebody who did not throw the first few punches. But that's enough here, bring back the hypocrite topic on RWL if you want to argue about it further.

Moving on:

Freen I thought you were onlining people to see their reaction, I guess I misunderstood. I was under the impression that Arty only retaliated after the second online attack though, so i'm not sure how I got that. Must have been a late night sometime

[Freenhult]

Lemme break it down for you again. I onlined Arty the first time. I knew I couldn't do anything. Thats why I did. If I truely wanted to online someone, I could derail them hardcore, but that was just a poke. The "2nd" time was me running and Arty coming into my run, and attacking people. Which is a clear violation of the Gentlemen's agreement that most of us play by here. It pretty much says If someones running, let them run. Don't start yours and just log off. Thats standard. Arty didn't, and he's calling them "onlines". Even though I was clearly in the right.

[The Beatles]

Wait, did he Arty online you when you were running, or did he just attack other people?

[Freenhult]

While I was running, he started to attack the guy in first again like he did before he logged out. I had just hit the 3rd place guy and began to hit Arty as he was finishing up his first round. I figured he just logged on and hadn't checked the scores. So I began to attack. I got hammered by 13 stds and no message what so ever.

[Shadow I]

If he hadn't attacked you before you onlined him in the middle of the half run I'd say Arthus was in the right there. True you were running, but he had not hit you, and you onlined him (I am assuming you knew he was online and in the middle of his attack phase)

I agree that logging out in the middle of a run is a stupid thing to do, but if you online the guy twice you can expect retal. The first online did nothing, true, but it is the spirit of the thing. I suppose there is some grey area there because of Arthus' initial reaction, but I don't think you are completely innocent here Freen. After the nooby dialogue had gone on for so long I would have reacted the same way.

[Freenhult]

You're not getting it Shadow. Your mind is stuck on onlining. I was running. 1st, that means that I get right of way. Atleast you should, if I remember correctly. Arthus was not online. If I'm getting ready to attack you, and you come online, you check to see whos on. You just don't start attacking people. Same here, except Arty decided he needed to finish right then. Except that I was squaring him up. You can't see what people are doing outside of scores. What I did, was not by definition onlining. Onlining is attacking a person who is running with intent to disrupt their run. That was not the case in my part. I was walking across the street, doing my business when a speeding car hit me. That car should have stopped, but it didn't. Who gets the ticket in that situation? The car for not stopping, or me for walking in the street when I can?

I knew he was online. I knew you were online because of the little star. But I can't know if he's doing stuff. I don't need to check to see if people are running when I am, because they're not supposed too. Thats the whole point here. There are 14 empires playing. 4 of which have decent land. If I can, I'm going to hit all 4, irregardless of what my net is. If I find a hole, I'm taking it. Anyone would here. If he wanted me to stop, he should have messaged THEN responded. If he wanted land back, he could have used a single attack, not 13 standard attacks. What I did by accident, did not warrant that punishment. Even if it was a noob, that doesn't make it right.

I'm upset because of the situation, and the lack of responsibility on the matter. If he "manned" up for his error, we wouldn't be in a war right now. Sorry Freen, I was wrong, I shouldn't have gone back to attacking when that guy was on. Instead, "I don't pity you one bit now." Oh yeah. Thats real nice.