Clan Treasury: slight modifications

[Freenhult]

The only modification the cT requires is a net restricter. High net people should not be able to take more than 25% of the cT amount.

Nothing else needs to be done.

[Death]

And here I was thinking we were going to discuss it.

[Shadow I]

The only modification the cT requires is a net restricter. High net people should not be able to take more than 25% of the cT amount.

Nothing else needs to be done.

Then where is the incentive to even use the CT? If I have excess cash I use it like an extension of the bank so I can avoid sacking, but once sacking is fixed there will be no need for that, and probably much less in the way of excess cash as well. I suppose it could be used as a recovery aid - put cash in when you are high as insurance for when you crash, but there is no guarantee that it will stay there in the first place. I think there needs to be a bit more of a system in place then based simply on net worth.

And I know it sounds selfish, and the CT is supposed to be used for teamwork, etc, but in a good clan, the lowest player is generally the least active player and I'd rather not be funding someone who barely runs. Conversely, if a clan sets up an emp, the emp is restricted by the CT whereas the players working for him are not, which is completely backwards and just makes it more annoying to get resources up to the top guy. I agree that something needs to be done, but I don't think a net restriction will cut it.

[Death]

Yeah.. clans using the CT to funnel goods to one empire was kind of the main reason I ever suggested changing it, that's an incredibly cheap move. I mean who cares if the person makes emperor, they didn't even work for it, they just got aided there.

[maddog]

Yeah.. clans using the CT to funnel goods to one empire was kind of the main reason I ever suggested changing it, that's an incredibly cheap move. I mean who cares if the person makes emperor, they didn't even work for it, they just got aided there.

Isnt it the whole point though as a clan to team work and to get highest networth as clan if using the CT for that purpose to aid one of ur clans tribes to top spot and maybe even to landlock the game to obtain emperor status leaving at least two others of the clan to net as much as they can with a fourth member who maybe active or not to supply the resources. if changes that r made to CT dont benefit the clan in the end ur going to have less clans and more solo runners again, purely because it wont be worth being clanned

[Death]

...You.. Are you kidding? That's the PROBLEM. God, I told some Admins years ago that if this wasn't fixed players would start thinking that what was then called abuse is normal clan tactics.

If clans had no CT here, they would still have a huge advantage over solo players, nerfing it would just be one small step towards a level playing field.

[Freenhult]

Then where is the incentive to even use the CT? If I have excess cash I use it like an extension of the bank so I can avoid sacking, but once sacking is fixed there will be no need for that, and probably much less in the way of excess cash as well. I suppose it could be used as a recovery aid - put cash in when you are high as insurance for when you crash, but there is no guarantee that it will stay there in the first place. I think there needs to be a bit more of a system in place then based simply on net worth.

Eh, The point is that if you're in first with 200mil and everyone else is no where near that amount. As in, they can't aid you because the net difference is so big. Why should that empire be allowed to hog all the cT if it wanted too. Granted, the game has been played that way for some time now, but you shouldn't be able to bypass the net restrictions for sending cash/food when those are often more important than the actual troops.

And I know it sounds selfish, and the CT is supposed to be used for teamwork, etc, but in a good clan, the lowest player is generally the least active player and I'd rather not be funding someone who barely runs. Conversely, if a clan sets up an emp, the emp is restricted by the CT whereas the players working for him are not, which is completely backwards and just makes it more annoying to get resources up to the top guy. I agree that something needs to be done, but I don't think a net restriction will cut it.

I was in favour of what Beatles posted earlier in the other topic.

1. A simple time delay -- say 6 hours for goods to arrive on the CT.
2. You can only CT a certain percentage of your resources -- just like the CM, at most a certain percentage of all your resources, whether in the CT or on you, can be in the CT. If (1) is implemented as well, then this restriction only holds while the goods are in transit.
3. The amount you can withdraw from the CT is inversely proportional to your net relative to the clan average net.

Any of those sound good?

Yeah.. clans using the CT to funnel goods to one empire was kind of the main reason I ever suggested changing it, that's an incredibly cheap move. I mean who cares if the person makes emperor, they didn't even work for it, they just got aided there.

You make it sound so simple. You give it a try. I doubt you'd make it.

Isnt it the whole point though as a clan to team work and to get highest networth as clan if using the CT for that purpose to aid one of ur clans tribes to top spot and maybe even to landlock the game to obtain emperor status leaving at least two others of the clan to net as much as they can with a fourth member who maybe active or not to supply the resources. if changes that r made to CT dont benefit the clan in the end ur going to have less clans and more solo runners again, purely because it wont be worth being clanned

*Sigh* Sadly no. The clan is a teamwork thing, but you're not really driving with a goal to landlock. Most emps I remember never had most of the land, just insane nets. Over 2billion when I went into mine. Then again, that was back in the days of market storing. Rudder and I used to pound each other out pretty good.

As for resources, I think of it as a communal resource pool. Its best to think of it like that.

If clans had no CT here, they would still have a huge advantage over solo players, nerfing it would just be one small step towards a level playing field.

Really. You need to quit saying stuff like this. You wanna EXPLAIN why single empires are so damn weak in comparison? Because they are far from it. Single empires have the upper hand in this game by far. They have a hit limit to protect them, if they get murdered, they can lock up their land. Sacked is the same essentially. They don't make/need insane resources and they have a far better chance of hiding them from people. Single empires can tear a clan apart in a "war".

Clans can use shared defenses (lame), have the cT, cM (Yay), then have war (Yay/Boo). You lose your hitlimit, ability to hide resources on yourself, can be murdered/sacked and -still- lose all your land.

That sounds so broken. God, why didn't I ever notice this? ¬_¬

In conclusion to this wall of text, all I have to say are...suggestions?

[Shadow I]

1. A simple time delay -- say 6 hours for goods to arrive on the CT.

From my experience using the CT, I usually don't take out stuff I put in until my next run, so a time delay won't change anything as far as I am concerned. That may just be me though. This would solve the problem of using the CT to bypass aid limits and I see no negative side effect to it, so I think this is a good idea. It just doesn't solve the whole problem.

2. You can only CT a certain percentage of your resources -- just like the CM, at most a certain percentage of all your resources, whether in the CT or on you, can be in the CT. If (1) is implemented as well, then this restriction only holds while the goods are in transit.

A possibility, but I thought we wanted to restrict what could be withdrawn from the CT and who can withdraw rather than what could be put into it. If the amounts that go in are the problem, why not just reduce the cap?

3. The amount you can withdraw from the CT is inversely proportional to your net relative to the clan average net.

That's basically the same as restricting high net players and giving the advantage to low net players.


Why not something like this: a credit system (3 credits?) that each allow you to take out a percentage (20%?) of the cap (rather than the total amount in there). That way it is possible to remove all of the CT so nothing goes to waste, but one empire would only be able to use 60% of a full CT in a run. If the CT was not full, it could be emptied out and used as needed. TCredits would recharge every 6 hours (same time it takes goods to get to the CT, assuming suggestion 1 is implemented)

Really. You need to quit saying stuff like this. You wanna EXPLAIN why single empires are so damn weak in comparison?

I agree with you mostly, but you have to remember that clanned players still have a hit limit against solo players, so the solo player doesn't have such a huge advantage over the clanned player as you make it out to be. All the negatives of being in a clan you cited depend on your opponents also being clanned. It's likely that at least some of them will, in which case you are right, but it is not the solo player that is able to do so much damage to the clanned player. Solo versus clanned, one on one, the players might as well both be solo except for the shared defenses, CM and CT, which give the clanned player the edge. Not huge one, but it's there.

EDIT: just realized that my last paragraph there is barely coherent. If you need to me clarify something let me know and I'll try when I am in better shape

[Tetigustas shadowson]

The Beatles

The CT is working as intended, some believe it gives an unfair advantage.

Tweaks that parties on both sides of this fence could agree on.

Freenhult
I believe there needs to be a slight limitation, but nothing much overall.
High net should not be able to take more than 25% of the CT
If you are @ 200mil, the net difference is so big; No one else can aid you.



Death
Clans abuse warslots
Using the CT to funnel goods to one empire
Nerfing it would just be one small step towards a level playing field.


maddog
As for the CT yes it can be abused, Isn't it the whole point though as a clan to team work.
Supply my clan m8s with what they need rather then trying to get anywhere myself

Shadow I
I agree that something needs to be done, but I do not think a net restriction will cut it.
The CT is supposed to be for teamwork, like an extension of the bank to avoid sacking
As a recovery aid - put cash in when you are high, insurance for when your lowered.
A system in place based simply on net worth
Recourses in until next run, a time delay.
Restrict what could be withdrawn, or reduce the cap?
A credit system (3 credits per deposit) can take out a percentage (20%? of the cap)
Restricting high net players and giving the advantage to low net players. (more reason for war)
Clan has a hit limit against solo (personal war)

Tetigustas shadowson
restrict CT withdraw to networth relationship, lower net more draw, higher net less draw, limiting the net race returning it to a clan race.
Timed personal war!

[Death]

"You make it sound so simple. You give it a try. I doubt you'd make it."

Done is before on several games, filling the CT then emptying it doesn't exactly require much skill.

"Clans can use shared defenses (lame), have the cT, cM (Yay), then have war (Yay/Boo). You lose your hitlimit, ability to hide resources on yourself, can be murdered/sacked and -still- lose all your land."

Let's see.. They can use the CM to buy cheaper troops than other empires, Clan Shader Defense is usually worthless but is still an advantage, however slight it may be, the CT is just a way to aid someone infinitely, and they can declare war on other clans to get around hitlimits and things of that nature. A clanned empire can hide resources on themselves just as easily as a clanned one, everyone can be Murdered and Sacked, and everyone loses their land. Oh and yeah, you can be declared war on, but the ability to declare war pretty much completely balances that out, if you don't want to risk death you just don't clan.

It's a little hard to take this "explain it" attitude from you, when I have explained it already and you're the one saying things like The only modification the cT requires is a net restricter. "High net people should not be able to take more than 25% of the cT amount. Nothing else needs to be done" without.. you know.. saying why.

Edit, when did Shadow suggest a combination of the credit system and the 20% thing? I must have missed that post.

[Shadow I]

The posts above TS's

Why not something like this: a credit system (3 credits?) that each allow you to take out a percentage (20%?) of the cap (rather than the total amount in there). That way it is possible to remove all of the CT so nothing goes to waste, but one empire would only be able to use 60% of a full CT in a run. If the CT was not full, it could be emptied out and used as needed. Credits would recharge every 6 hours (same time it takes goods to get to the CT, assuming suggestion 1 is implemented)

Alternatively to 6 hour recharge, you could have to "buy" credits be contributing a certain percentage of your resources to the CT. This would ensure that nobody who wasn't actively contributing would be able to access clan resources.

[Death]

I like that, but I would rather credits recharge every however long it takes to get full turns, personally. Just to prevent someone from logging on 3 hours before they run, stuffing their bank, then doing it a second time when they want to run.

[Shadow I]

You make it sound so simple. You give it a try. I doubt you'd make it.

Missed this. This is where we disagree Freen. It IS easy to get aided up using the CT and thereby take emp on an unbeatable ratio. As far as I am concerned, the ability to run regularly while maintaining an unbroken top spot is what seperates a real emp from some random guy sitting on top getting spoon fed networth. I'll admit taht it's not so much of an achievement with the broken mage strat atm, but the fact remains that it is far harder to be able to run during your reign as emp. To do that requires that you are in control of the majority of the game's land in order to keep ahead, as well as a teammate running at the same time as you to hold your goods while you make your run (or it will when mage strats are nerfed). Either way, the CT makes it incredibly easy since it bypasses aid limits and can be used by clan hoppers who jump in to make an emp run then get booted for the extra protection.

Suggestion based on that: minimum of 3 days clan membership before CT access is granted.

Death: Full turns take a long time on WoA, and stored turns might throw that off a bit. Maybe 24 hour recharge?

[Death]

I keep forgetting about WoA. 24 would work also.

[Shadow I]

I am not a coder, so stuff I am suggesting may be out of the question since it is fairly complex. I wish I had an idea of the limits to what can be done.