Experience :: The Truth

Post by **Devari** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:50 pm

Someone (who shall remain unnamed) sent a question to the BFR administrator account on the subject of experience. In the interests of fairness, I'm going to post my response here. The fact of the matter is, the way experience works is rather misunderstood by the general playerbase.

Q (modified): I have a question to do with Experience. I have quite a bit of experience. However when I attack others, I always lose more than them. Isn't the whole point
of having tons of experience to attack and lose less than your opponent, not
the other way around?

A:

That is, in fact, a misconception.

There are two types of experience, Offensive and Defensive.

Offensive Exp = ((Successful Attacks * 5) + (Failed Attacks * 2)) / (5000)

Defensive Exp = ((Successful Defences * 5) + (Failed Defences * 2)) /
(5000)

When one person attacks another, their offensive points are multiplied by
1+Offensive Exp and their enemy's defensive points are multiplied by
1+Defensive Exp.

Higher offensive points versus lower defensive points USUALLY lead to
higher losses for the opponent. However, this is not always true. Losses themselves are in no way DIRECTLY affected by experience, although the increased offensive/defensive points do have an INDIRECT effect.

The experience you see on your status page is actually misleading. It is
your defensive experience * 1000 + your offensive experience * 1000. If
someone's defensive experience is greater than your offensive experience,
then they have the upper hand regardless of what number shows up on status.
Generally, you wouldn't want to attack someone too much that has a history
of many successful defences.

If someone could actually put this in the guide, I would be eternally grateful.

Post by **Freenhult** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:40 pm

Right. I can stick this in the game guide. Now my question is, why doesn't Defensive and Offensive show up differently on the main menu?

Edit: Perhaps this should also go into suggestions and bugs? To make the necessary adjustments.

Post by **Devari** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:52 pm

I'd say it would warrant a separate topic in suggestions and bugs. And I have no idea why the display is not separated.

Come to think of it, perhaps we should display the actual experience bonus, not some arbitrary multiplication by 1000...

Post by **Freenhult** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:58 pm

Devari wrote: I'd say it would warrant a separate topic in suggestions and bugs. And I have no idea why the display is not separated. Come to think of it, perhaps we should display the actual experience bonus, not some arbitrary multiplication by 1000...

... O_O Why the devil is it /not/ the real number? Geesh. Alright. I'll stick a new topic in there.

Post by **The Beatles** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:16 am

Experience wasn't my code, it was from another (GPLed) Promi.

Arthus · Post by **Arthus** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:58 am

Ok, then here's a question. Me in BFR.

Offences: 1452 (97%)

Person who i am attacking, just an example.

Defenses: 628 (14%)

Wouldn't I, according to that, lose less considering my far greater offensive experience compared to his defensive experience?

I am just really confused by this and trying to understand so please bear with me.

Post by **Ruddertail** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:12 am

Not necessarily, as experience doesn't tie directly to losses. It can have indirect effects, but it won't be "I have higher experience then X, therefore, I loose less then X."

Post by **Devari** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:14 am

As I said, it helps your offensive points. This MAY translate to less losses for you/more for him/her, but does not always do so. Indeed, it is nothing out of the ordinary for an attacker with superior offensive points to still lose as much as a defender with inferior defensive points.

Experience does not have any direct affect upon your losses or your opponent's losses. What it does affect is your offensive points and their defensive points. This can have the effect of causing more losses to them than you, but this is not always true.

Arthus · Post by **Arthus** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:16 am

So its only sometimes? Oh, didn't realise that. Didn't look that way in WoA when I was attacking freenhult, I always lost alot more. oh well.

ohmyjapan16 · Post by **ohmyjapan16** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:46 pm

Arthus wrote: Person who i am attacking, just an example.

Defenses: 628 (14%)

Defenses: 628 (14%)

Arty leave me alone!

Post by **Devari** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:42 pm

Arthus wrote: So its only sometimes? Oh, didn't realise that. Didn't look that way in WoA when I was attacking freenhult, I always lost alot more. oh well.

Yeah, losses can vary widely... Sometimes you'll get bad luck.

Succinctly, experience serves as a multiplier for your offensive points. This has two effects:

A) It makes your attack more likely to succeed.

It increase the CHANCE that you MAY have less losses than your opponent, but does not guarantee it. If memory serves, by default, attackers generally lose more than defenders.

Arthus · Post by **Arthus** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:40 pm

Arty leave me alone!

Never!! I only have 900 more offences approximately than the next guy so I must get it higher and I know you can take the beating! *laughs*

ohmyjapan16 · Post by **ohmyjapan16** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:06 pm

Arthus wrote:
Arty leave me alone!
Never!! I only have 900 more offences approximately than the next guy so I must get it higher and I know you can take the beating! *laughs*

Hah maybe you're just unlucky.

Nuclear Raunch · Post by **Nuclear Raunch** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:48 pm

From my observations it seems that troop losses are calculated in terms of defensive/offensive points and then afterward converted into troops. For example a single troop attack with whatever the hell jugs turned into (the second unit) which as I recall had an offense of 2 and a defense of 5.

Attacker has 10 mil offensive points and the defender has 8 mil defensive points giving the attacker a 25% advantage. This number will be multiplied by a range (that's what makes your losses vary) and it will come out and say that the defender loses say 500k defensive points and the attacker loses 600k offensive points. This number will then be converted into troops. If the defender has 1000 defensive experience (giving him an experience bonus of 1) at full health with no other extenuating factors his losses will be 50,000 troops.

Formula should be (defensive points to be lost/defensive points per troop)/(1+experience bonus)(health/100)

(500,000/5)/(2)(1)

The attacker has 1500 offensive experience and the game figures he will lose 600,000 offensive points. He also has full health. The attacker will lose 120,000 troops.

Formula should be (offensive points to be lost/offensive points per troop)/(1+experience bonus)(health/100)

(600,000/2)/(2.5)(1)

Now the kicker here is that health plays a huge role in troop losses.If the defender was an idiot and left his health at 20% guess what? He's losing a hell of a lot more and you're losing a hell of a lot less. In proms that allow attacks down to 0 health when someone is attacked while they are at 0 health the attacker's losses are the exact same as if the defender had 0 troops. AKA you occasionally lose 1 troop.

Disclaimer, this isn't something I've read or found in any way that makes me think that it's 100% accurate. It is just what I've observed and while it's pretty accurate from my experiences there are probably details that I'm missing.

Post by **Freenhult** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:47 am

Hey. I tried to update the game guide, but I can't. DB is locked. :/

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